Tory minister calls Arbour ‘a disgrace’ *
Posted on 18 June 2008 by Jack
One of Stephen Harper’s senior cabinet members called Louise Arbour “a disgrace” on the floor of the House of Commons yesterday.
Vic Toews, a Manitoba Conservative MP and the president of the Treasury Board, yelled “she’s a disgrace” during question period as a Liberal MP, Martha Hall Findlay, was calling on the government to acknowledge Ms. Arbour’s work as United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. Ms. Arbour is to retire from that position.
During her question, Ms. Hall Findlay alleged that the federal government had ordered diplomatic staff abroad not to talk about Ms. Arbour’s work.
“We congratulate the work of Louise Arbour and we very strongly support the work of the United Nations in their pursuit of the protection of human rights and we’ll continue to do so,” Foreign Affairs Minister David Emerson said in response to Ms. Hall Findlay’s question.
After question period had concluded, Ms. Hall Findlay asked Mr. Toews to withdraw his remark. He did not, telling the House, “the comments that Louise Arbour has made in respect of the state of Israel and the people of Israel are, in fact, a disgrace and I stand by those words.”
Ms. Hall Findlay condemned Mr. Toews.
Update: 6:55 pm. It appears we have a “discussion” going on and I blame Vic. He did it and good for him. We need to start getting tough with this crowd or we’ll end up like Britain and that is not where we want to go.
I’m out of here.
Goodnight.
Popularity: 41% [?]
June 18th, 2008 at 10:04 am
I was proud of Vic, he had the balls to speak the truth. Arbour is a disgrace.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:19 am
The MSM will bash Vic Toews for speaking the truth. Thankyou Vic for calling it like it is!!
June 18th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Only in Canada do the “conservatives” take pride in advancing another nation’s agenda. The real disgrace is that any criticism of Israel’s brutal policies are tantamount to treason with this government and with certain news sites. Since when is any regime above questioning?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Cynapse: Canadas voting record in the UN with regards to Israel while the Libs were in power was to support virtually any and all Anti Israel resolutions. I guess that would have them advancing (take your pick) Palestinian, Syrian, Iranian, Egyptian…. agendas.
A quote from this article about Ms Arbours recent visit to help validate anti Israeli sentiments in the ME.
http://www.eyeontheun.org/editor.asp?p=383&b=1
“Just what was Arbour listening to so closely inside those Tehran meeting halls anyway? Ahmadinejad delivered his signature statement about the illegitimacy of Israel’s existence, ranting about “the Zionist regime’s occupation” since the day it was created “60 years ago.” He then went on to blame the US for a litany of evils. Referring to the US, Iranian news agencies report that his speech included: “They know quite well that the Islamic Revolution wants to prepare the ground for materialization of the promised `big event’ (reappearance of the Imam of Age);…We are against rule of the non-righteous individuals….[R]evolutionary Iran aims at global government and a genuine Islamic culture so as to gain a loftier position worldwide.”
June 18th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Vic Toews is an ass. We can all support Israel but that does not mean we can not be critical of their policies and how they treat the Palestinian people. He’s just looking for votes.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Ward:
Instead of supporting any other nation’s agenda, how about supporting our own nation’s agenda? Canada gains nothing from Israel lording over the Middle East like neo-Boers, nor does it gain from Iran launching a nuclear attack to start WW3. None of the aforementioned nations stands up when the UN criticizes Canadian treatment of its native population, partially because none of those nations care and largely because all of them are guilty of suppressing their own indigenous groups (Israel vs Palestinians, Iraq vs Kurds, Lebanon vs self-described Phoenicians, etc)
Arbour’s attendance at the meeting in question may have been ill-advised, but unlike most of this government at least she’s seeing both sides of the story. I know everyone’s still paranoid and trigger-happy after 9/11 but that’s no excuse to condemn thousands of innocents -whom incidentally see more Islamic terror than we’ll ever see- to death via giving the perpetual green light to a rogue nation that have temporarily convinced us that we’re BFF’s. By sliding into the hip pocket of one side in the battle, Harper has failed just as badly as the Liberals.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
If one legitmately fears death or grievious bodily harm even Canada’s own Criminal Code legalizes using however much force is necessary, including deadly force, to protect yourself. So based on our own inalienable belief in the right to self-defense, then what brutal policies is Israel guilty of? It is the duty of the Israeli government, just as it is the Canadian government, to do whatever is necessary, using the military, to protect its citizens from attack. If anything, Israel has put up with far more than any other nation on the face of the earth would have under similar circumstances.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
…oops, forgot. Good going Vic. No, wait…..bloody outstanding Vic!! Oh my the truth really upsets so many. It is so un-Canadian (thanks to decades of Liberal rot in society) and less stressful to actually stand up and call a spade a spade, or exactly how you see it, when it so much easier to just sit on the fence. It is so much safer, even though you can clearly see both sides of the story, to tell the bully who just beat up the skinny little kid for wearing glasses that ‘he deserved it’ than to condemn what you know in your heart is just plain wrong.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Way to go Vic, and I hope he is not compelled to make some rediculous apology some time shortly.
It’s a little bit of a stretch to condemn Israel for any defesive activities that they take when they are continually on the receiving end a rain of rockets from the neighborung lands.
Go Israel, and go Vic. Arbour is rightly identified as an embarrassment.
CRB
June 18th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Cynapse: The UN is a corrupt, dysfunctional, anti western, anti democratic joke. It can’t even get its own house in order, yet it is apparently the moral arbitor of the world.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
The UN may be attacked legitimately but it will also be attacked re: Israel because all states have a voice in the UN and Israel isn’t popular in its region or elsewhere. No matter how pro-Israeli you are, you cannot deny that you’d be any happier about a mass of heavily-armed invaders (albeit sanctioned by a colonial power) displacing a huge lot of natives and setting up shop. That won’t make friends anywhere. As far as Europe was concerned, they were merely getting rid of a problem in supporting the state’s formation (otherwise they would have allowed Jews to have land in Europe) and as soon as the Jews were gone, the antisemitic attitudes re-appeared. America’s support is almost entirely geopolitical in nature and at the expense of local Arabs - this solidarity crap makes no more sense than when the US uses it in reference to the equally brutal Turks or Mubarak’s Egyptian regime.
But don’t take my word for it - even David Ben-Gurion was aware of what he was doing -
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.”
– David Ben Gurion
Ward, you seem reasonable enough to look beyond this solidarity hype to understand why such hostilities exist. Canada should stop feeding into this war by advocating either side, given both by way of their actions have little moral standing. If Israel wants to prosper unassimilated in the region then they can do so on their own dime and reputation. Canada has no geopolitical aspirations in the region so we need to stop being lapdogs.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Cynapse,please give us all a break with your anti-Israel drabble.If the other countries around Israel would quit trying to attack and kill every Israeli they see and quit lobbing bombs and sending suicide bombers to kill innocent women and children while they are praying or shopping,then peace would be possible and they wouldn,t be attacked by Israel.They only want to be left alone in peace.And as long as we have ass-holes like you making comments in Canada about Israel there will be no understanding and even a politician like arbour making the kind of statements she made is disgusting.When you Liberals are wiped off the election map next election ,your big lying mouths will be silenced.Its coming Synapse ,,its coming.And your cowardly words attacking a country that is only defending itself is a sign to the free world what Liberalism is all about.And we musn,t forget TALIBAN Jack,but he at least is up front and not cowardly like the liberals with his comments.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Pre-emptive strikes on civilian targets is self-defense?
Dealing arms to apartheid South Africa is self-defense?
Allowed a mass civilian slaughter by Phalangist Christian in Lebanon is self-defense?
Bombing hotels with journalists is self-defense?
It is you who speaks drabble with your highly biased accounts. I suppose if someone invades Canada and we fight back it is our fault when they bombs us … because we should have just shut up and sat there. Yeah, right. Find me one example where that’s ever worked out.
BTW I do not belong to the Liberal party, but because you called me one I know you’re reading out of the partisan bible, playing a simple us and them game without having put any real thought into the topic. Keep this low-brow squabbling to yourself
June 18th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
And bert you are no conservative because real conservatives conserve for THEMSELVES and THEIR OWN COUNTRY instead of acting as an attack dog for another country’s questionable behaviour.
You’re a dupe, as is anyone who thinks they’re doing God’s work by blindly supporting one side in a Middle Eastern conflict.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Cynapse: Take the time to wipe the froth off your keyboard, screen and whatever else your are spitting on. Any sane person can see that Arbour is about as anti-Israel and anti-American as any Liberal or NDP’r. It’s time to get rid of the UN. When all the despots of the world are on the human rights commission, the writing is on the wall.
As for the libs’, they seem to be doing a good job of getting rid of themselves. Not soon enough, but we have faith in Stephanie.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
It’s bert who has the problem, resorting to name-calling because someone dare question the untouchable Israel. Conservatives supposedly don’t crown holy cow groups like this - alas identity politics are strong as ever. Anyone who’s bothered to do some research knows full well that the nation’s actions fall morally short of that “just trying to defend ourselves” line trotted out. Had it been Arabs bombing hotels, attacking US warships, etc, you guys would be screaming bloody murder. Had it been an intra-Asian or intra-African conflict you probably wouldn’t have noticed.
So why do the rules suddenly change for one nation and why is a politician being against the dubious actions of that nation amount to being the kiss of death?
June 18th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Cynapse…you are a fool
Your anti-Israel rants are sad. No country is perfect, including Canda and Israel. However, Mr. Toews was right on when he commented on Ms. Arbour and her stances on Israel.
Regardless of which party you support…you are have proven yourself to be a fool.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Anyone taking an anti Israel stance needs to have an elementary course in history and geography. Israel is a creation of European prejudices, guilt and a desire to carve a base in that part of the world. Geography is self evident. Look at a map and you will see that they are surrounded by hundreds of millions in Arab countries bent on the destruction of Israel simply because they are Jews. If they were so keen on relieving the Palestinians’ problems then why not ante up a few acres and help their fellow Muslims find a permanent home? That would be a very peaceful solution.
Louise Arbour is a poster child for anti-Semites all across Canada. They see the US as evil in all aspects but enjoy the properity being a neighbour of the hated Americans brings. This is the vilest form of hypocricy. That Canada supports Israel is just bravery at its best. It’s the right thing to do, liberal outrage proves it to be so.
That Israel takes preemptive action against threats is understandable given the circumstances of their existence and if neighbouring countries had a better track record at keeping the peace (and their word) it wouldn’t be required but that’s the way it is. I’m sure even the most ardent anti-Semite would want to do the same if surrounded by enemies with murder on their minds and hate in their hearts.
Bravo to Mr. Toews! He is only saying the truth. Unfortunately, the truth offends many. But then the truth always does.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Gee Paul, all we need now is the a word and the hatchet will be complete!
How do you accidentally deal arms to an apartheid regime or accidentally not notice mass civilian slaughters in a country under your command? Truthfully, that notion is what sounds foolish.
Being a stooge for another country is also quite foolish. Holding politicians over the fire for attending one dubious meeting while excusing serial transgressions by an entire country as a “mistake” is foolish.
You’d all be further ahead to just admit that you back Israel because the other side is Muslim and right now Muslims are the bogeyman. Nobody cared about any of the middle eastern nations or their welfare before the first Gulf war, and your sudden concern for the tiny nation (as front line soldiers of course) is transparent. Call me all the names you want - the writing is one the wall.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Peter:
Obviously the other Arab states aren’t concerned at all about the Palestinians, with Jordan and Lebanon having both slaughtered civilians by the thousands. No one’s claiming the ME is a cohesive bloc.
My concern here is that to many so-called conservatives are trotting out mindless AIPAC press releases without bothering to look at the history of the region and the fact that, when you get all of your information from sources with an obvious bias in favour of one side (ie National Post, Fox News) that you aren’t seeing the whole picture. Israel is not a nation full of docile Jeff Goldblum type characters that just want to be left alone. It has a left wing and a right wing, and more importantly a far right wing (to the right of Likud). That latter wing spreads just as much hate stateside as any Arab group does in the middle east. Those extremists include many of the settlers along the border who routine attack Christian peacemakers, reporters, Palestinian civilians and even the IDF. Other Israelis are migrants from these same nations that oppose it (particularly Iran) and are willing to use the same tactics used by these nations. Some of you need to google Meir Kahane.
Moreover, if you want peace then you need to start acting like a broker more than an agent. But it’s doubtful “peace” is what most of you are after.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
So why didn’t Arbour use her role as the head of Human rights for the whole world to go after all the nations that have terrible HR records ?
Not a peep from Louise, but she finds time to go after Israel. Not a peep about ZERo human rights in Cuba or China. Not a squeak about all the Arab countries or Mugabe. What the hell was she doing for all those years, other than protecting Kofi as he ran the world’s best organized kleptocracy.
Her reputation is as stinky as horse’s patoot.
She remains an embarrassment to Canada and the values we hold.
The sooner she fades form memory, the sooner our reputation can be restored.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
How soon we forget.
More here…
June 18th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Justification for everything going forward, Jack?
Didn’t we all have a group hand-wringing not long ago about a certain Reverend who used the past to justify current hatreds?
A lot of people showing their cards today.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
I am proud of Mr Toews today!! He said what millions of us have been thinking for years. Louise is a creature of the socialist (Bolshevik) mind set - all of her mushy words are covering a razor blade to slash any who would dare to disagree with her self image as a high priestess of judgement (note I did not say Justice). She is against anything and anyone that resounds as civilized and productive. I have watched her ‘decisions’ both before and after she went to the pest hole of a UN; I was always appalled at her idea of Justice - she made me furious and I felt vengeful for her victims.
She is one of the people that protected (maybe she participated?) the ‘players’ in Unca Mo’s oil for $$ (supposed to be oil-for food) program which robbed the people of Iraq of food and medical supplies so the UN people (and their Liberano supporters international and Canadian) could give Saddam $$ (instead of food and supplies) for discount oil which the ‘entitled’ then resold on the international market (petro elf, or something like that, was the conduct). The Democraters in US refused to give Mr. Bolton a mandate to get to the bottom of that crime against humanity - if he had, I doubt any of you would be defending Louise.
She is, indeed, a disgrace, IMO.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
It must be irritating as heck to have a productive, prosperous and democratic country in the midst of backward and by and large unproductive countries. 60 years into it’s existance and they’re thriving. Must really piss them off. Especially when you have hundreds of thousands of Arab Muslims living in Israel with full rights of Citizenship, without fear of being killed by the next nut case with a suicide vest, and they don’t want to leave any time soon.
Seems to me that the Jews were right were they are now, several thousands of years ago and after getttng chased out, are now back and no intention of leaving.
Support of a democracy that admits to being our friend as opposed to countries that advocate for the death all Jews, everywhere, including those in Canada, and further death to all that will not submit to Islam. Yep, going to support Israel every time. They’re Democratic, friendly and not socialist. That’s enough for me.
Pat
June 18th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Hey Cynapse,let me know if you need any help picking up all your teeth!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
June 18th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Mr. G showing up
This thread has now reached perfection …
The hypocrisy is blinding. Good news for the Liberals though - if you guys were totally principled, they’d never get back in office.
So we can all agree: different rules for different people?
June 18th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
They had to go somewhere, Cynapse. What were they to do?
Roll over and die?
I can’t picture that but I have said many times that had the Palestinians worked with the new state of Israel instead of trying to stomp it out all would be wealthy today. Jews brought their education and modern insite to a geographical area that was destitute and they were (and are) willing to share with peaceful neighbours.
Unfortunately, for the Palestinans Arafat appeared along with his thugs. The rest is violent history as criminals rule and want no peace. Therefore the reason why another announcement of a new peace deal today was not covered by this site. There will be no peace.
I gave up on the situation long ago.
Regarding Arbor…she is a bad joke foisted off on the Canadian people by a pandering government of the time who wanted to look good. Vic was wrong to say what he did when he did but he only said what a lot of people in this country are thinking.
His mistake was he said it out loud.
You can’t do that in Canada, as we see almost every day.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
“Her reputation is as stinky as horse’s patoot.”
This one gets my vote for funny of the month Jack. Hahahahaha.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Jack:
1) I have no interest in defending Arbour per se.
2) Britain did offer part of Uganda. The offer was refused.
3) Your take on events re: how Israel is not quite complete, however. Look up Menachem Begin and the Irgun - they committed quite a few terrorist-type attacks and killed many civilization during the formation of the state. This helped accelerate many of the hard feelings that persist to this day. Arabs were equally guilty of such attacks, no doubt - but it’s not one sided as people here are making it out to be.
4) The situation is a joke and won’t be resolved any time soon. It’s a bigger joke, though, to see all these people putting one side on a pedestal for political convenience, then attempt to discredit their rivals for doing the same thing with the other side. All they’ve come back with so far is smearing worthy of rabble.ca and some extremely sanitized accounts of history that paint Israel as saints who simply make a few mistakes.
Sorry, Jack, but there’s no way I’m backing down from this. It’s hypocritical BS and 10,000 miles from fair.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
I know about Begin and his history. It’s not something to be proud of but the Brits weren’t exactly helping the situation.
Neither did the League of Nations or it’s clone the UN.
Regarding “the situation is a joke”. I agree if you are referring to the current mess in the Middle East. A very bad joke.
I don’t know why I started this thread but it surely is interesting.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
“Sorry, Jack, but there’s no way I’m backing down from this. It’s hypocritical BS and 10,000 miles from fair.”
You added something to your comment while I was typing (all thumbs). I note that we all have our views but you have the blessing of your own site to expand on your thoughts.
If you do, it will appear here. I’m not saying you’re completely wrong. I am saying that there are two sides to every story and my comment area is not the best place to express oneself.
We can do better working as a team so that visitors see both sides of the argument.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
This topic carries so much emotional baggage, with religious imprints and the history of WW2. We can argue until the cows come home and not settle the matter.
One thing I do know, is that there are good souls and bad souls in every slice of humanity you take, whether race, geography, religion, whatever. For instance, I don’t have to think too long or too hard about the state of someone’s inner being when they can rationalize taking the life of a child… any child.
What I wish for, for myself, and everyone else, is that the kind, the productive, and the tolerant triumph over brutality, whatever form it takes.
Unfortunately, when faced with brutality, a brutal response is often necessary. You cannot negotiate with those who don’t wish to negotiate because they can achieve what they want without negotiating. We have plenty of examples of brutality all around us - more in some places than others, to be sure.
That’s about all I am going to say for the moment, I am reading the comments on this thread with great interest and an open mind.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Jack:
My apologies if you took offense at the “BS” comment. It was not aimed at you - more of a general statement about the partisan response.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Cool facts about Israel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5tDDkvXSI8
Cool facts about any of Israel’s mortal enemies.
…still searching……stll searching…..still searching….
An enlightening 6:26.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1uisNMwQ80
June 18th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
“My apologies if you took offense at the “BS” comment. It was not aimed at you.”
I know that. When I saw your first comment this morning I nearly scrubbed the entry in order to protect you but I’m glad I hung in.
We do need to talk about this.
You write much better than I do and I want you to accept the “assignment” I propose — create an entry on your own blog and we’ll see where it goes.
Let’s have it out — I have an open mind.
So do most of my visitors.
If you feel you’re right convince us.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Two points…..Arbour is a disgrace and Cynapse is about to go apoplectic. Quite the anti-Israel bigot there. The fact is that the United Nations approved the UN Partition Plan (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181) on November 29, 1947, dividing the country into two states, one Arab and one Jewish. Jerusalem was to be designated an international city administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status. The Jewish community accepted the plan,but the Arab League and Arab Higher Committee did not.
Oh….and just to be clear….Arbour is a disgrace.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Cynapse, I went hunting for someone you could relate to. I think I found him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HTC6fQRx7c
June 18th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Ok. I’ll work on something.
No need to protect me. When wading into one of the hot-button topics (Middle East, Abortion, Religion, Gay Marriage, Capital Punishment) you have to expect a few flaming darts if you come across with any opinion of note. Obviously wading into a forum and taking the opposite position on an uncontested partisan issue is a recipe for conflict. Thanks, regardless. Your patience is appreciated.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
BTDT:
I can’t click on that link right now. I’m sure it’s a radical Muslim or Nazi, since only those people would dare question Israel.
John Luft:
I’ve no shame re: getting heated about historical double-standards. Once you face some, you’ll understand. Until then, this is just a game to those who back one side as pawns against the other side … mostly for the sake of annoying their partisan rivals here in nice safe North America. I doubt even one of you would go to the border region and try to keep the peace like, say, the Christian Peacemaker Teams.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Cynapse — I sometimes think you do this stuff on purpose to build my hits.
Laughing.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
On second thought…so does Vic.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
You have to admit, though - it is quite a feat to bring out the “politically correct” side of the sworn Anti-PC crowd (”you disagreed with something an Israeli did! You’re bigot!”). It’s similar to how bringing out the anti-intellectual side of the left was once a feat (not really any more, given the number of student groups who try to stop people from speaking at universities)
June 18th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
We’ll see where it all goes. This story has “legs” unless I miss my guess.
Kinsella today suggested that Vic can kiss his judge appointment goodbye. I think he missed where Vic said he wasn’t interested but wouldn’t it be something if he accepted?
I can see it now.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Kinsella is generally correct about these things but the tide could turn in Vic’s favour. Judges in general are being taken to task for being too lenient and rather like Arbor in her willingness to look the other way when politically convenient. Suppose Harper’s reign gets stronger and Canadians desire the get tough judge that is popular in the US … Vic would be a great bet because he can say he took a stand when no one else was willing to. I wouldn’t count him out.
Kinsella’s bias is towards political inertia, which is usually the case but not always … as his party recently found out.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
You could be right — I don’t know.
June 18th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I cannot erase from my mind the picture of her sitting in the audience before Iran’s nutcase.
No matter how you slice the Israel/Palestine issue, Israel is a fact. There is no undoing of Israel, and everyone might as well get over it.
That being said, Arbour attended a public meeting, in Iran, and sat at the feet of the nutjob that threatens to “wipe Israel off the map”.
Don’t bother going into anti-semitism, or the Israel/Palestine issue, here we have the highest ranking UN human rights official providing the nutjob with the legitimacy of her office. Substitute any other world leader who has publicly stated a desire to carry out a genocide for the actors here, and you still get the same answer: it is inconceivable that the UN HR official sits in the same room as the leader that expresses the desire for a genocide.
That is either plain stupid, or pompous, or both. For this foolishness, I vote her as Canada’s Greatest Embarrassment Of All Time. Greatest. Of All Time. Trudeaupianism gone to its logical conclusion. Excuse me, I have to wash now.
June 18th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
“LG” — Those of us who have been following Arbor’s career agree. It was a really stupid thing to do for a brand new Liberal MP — to stand up in the house and praise her.
She asked for it — she got it.
“Both barrels!”
I also note (because I watched that session on CPAC) that Harper was abnormally testy — but right. We’re getting very tired of “lefty” bullshit and they are being exposed daily as they all scream “foul” and look for the next scandal. Each time they do they lose more voters and the polls don’t reflect that because they are “rigged”.
It’s like watching Bugs Bunny cartoons.
June 18th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
“Or Charlie Brown.”
June 18th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Cynapse Says: I’m sure it’s a radical Muslim or Nazi, since only those people would dare question Israel.
Actually I don’t believe he is either. I just think that you will agree with his assessment of the Israeli/Arab problem. That’s all.
June 18th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Cynapse
Sorry about the tardy reply. I read your reply most intently and while some points may be valid, I think you have misunderstood my post. My points are simple. History is a given, regardless of any attempts to re-write it today. The circumstances on the ground are what they are and without the support of the United States and it’s allies such as Canada, Israel will be turned into a into a dead zone. And I’m sure nobody wants a continuation or finalization of the Holocaust, right? Forget, foreign policies, interventions, allied countries or even who is who’s camp follower. The facts are plainly there, regardless of what channel one watches.
All I see from Louise Arbour and her followers is a long litany of accusations, condemnations and foot stamping. No solutions. No recognition that 60 years after the fact is not the time to “ship them all home”, where would they go?
Arab countries know exactly where they’d go, in the oven or worse. Again, that is a fact. Not something dreamed up on FOX. And no glamorizing by the CBC or the Toronto Star will change it. So her backing countries that have such views implicates her as an anti-Semite bent on Israel’s destruction for there is no other solution in their eyes. Just ask her buddy Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
And because Canada is on the side of democracy and respect for human life, Canada simply cannot support any policy that would see the extinction of a people. Now don’t give me the usual, “Yes, but the imperialist USA has done worse” argument. In this case it is simply a matter of sides and nothing more. Either you are for the preservation of human life in Israel, given that 60 years on, things are as they are. Or you support the annihilation of the Israel and the Jews. What is it?
June 18th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
If the countries that surround the state of Israel would acknowledge it’s right to exist and categotically state that any armed hostilities against it would be treated as an attack against them and that the perpertrators would be dealt with accordingly, there would be dancing in the streets throughout Israel, etc etc etc etc, what a dreamer I am……
Let’s deal with reality instead of wishful thinking shall we….Arbour is an ass as charged by Toews, Toews is an ass also, just not on such a large scale as Arbour.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
The Jews thought that by getting their own country it would enhance their security, where all it has done is make them an easier target. They are targeted politically by nearly every nation in the (dis)united nations. The only unity in the un is its hatred for Israel and Jews everywhere. They are targeted militarily by every nation that surrounds them. Nations that will focus on the west once they destroy Israel.
The Jews supposedly control the media and world banking. If this is true then why are they getting such a kicking in the msm.
Too few people realize that this is a spiritual battle, not a battle of arms. The Jews religious history has them as G-d”s chosen people, and the rest are filled with a jealous hatred of Israel and Jews. Ishmael was born to Hagar, Abraham’s maid servant. Ishmael “will be a wild man, his hand will be against every man”, Ishmael is the father of the arabs. Isaac was born later to Sarah, Abraham’s wife, and was blessed. Abraham’s son Jacob, became Israel after wrestling with the angel of G-d. The Jewish lineage goes from Abraham, through Isaac to Jacob renamed Israel. It is no wonder that the Arabs hate the Jews and Israel and always will. It is no wonder that an Arab would invent a religion to counter Judaism, and claim Abraham as its Patriarch, but seek to destroy the Jews.
You could establish a Jewish nation in the middle of the Arctic where they would not bother anyone, but there are people and nations that are be bothered by the fact that Jews are allowed to live. Again I say it is a spiritual battle. This will not be solved anytime soon.
mid island mike
oh & by the way. I never did have any use for Louise Arbour, not as a Judge and certainly not in the position she currently holds. Regarding Toews, sometimes you just have to call it as you see it and let the chips fall where they may.
June 19th, 2008 at 12:39 am
The only thing Vic Toews did wrong was his selection of quotes. There are ample and worse examples of Arbour’s embarrassing behaviour, both as a Supreme Court Justice and as a UN flunkie.
June 19th, 2008 at 12:49 am
Peter:
Thanks for your response.
However, Israel is hardly at death’s door as yourself and many others like to claim:
-World’s 33rd largest economy (according to the world bank)
-Very high tech economy that includes software design, CAD, fibre optics, medicine
-Only nuclear power in the middle east
Not bad for 6 million people in a space slightly smaller than New Jersey. Most countries would kill for that kind of “desperation”.
For reasons of political convenience, stateside lobbyists like to paint a picture of desperation as though these pour souls just escaped the Germans. Yet, there have been several generations of Israelis that never directly dealt with those conditions and know life only as the local hegemon. A few suicide bombers can create panic among civilians but come nowhere close to toppling Israel’s advanced military.
If it weren’t for fear of world retribution, Israel would have probably dropped a nuke or two on several Arab countries by now. Islamic megalomania aside, Israels foes are numerous but weak. The UN can’t even stop a slaughter between poorly armed Africans in Darfur - what chance does it have in stopping a zealous nuclear power backed by the world’s remaining superpower? And just how damaging are those UN resolutions that are passed?
It’s nice that some Westerners are coming to terms with and trying to right past wrongs via supporting states of the formerly conquered - however, Israel long ago left refugee territory and is approaching Boer-land (ie local empire run by a tiny minority).
June 19th, 2008 at 3:59 am
Well Cynapse, it seems that no amount of reason can bend a mind made up. As I said, it is a matter of sides and it seems you prefer the anti-Semitic side. So be it. As one who has lived there for quite a spell with UN peacekeeping forces, I was impressed by the tenacity of the Israeli people and also negatively impressed with the cruelty and hate of their neighbors.
I respect your point of view, although I think it might be a better fit some past era. Again, take the time to check history, read up on the Balfour Declaration and the real history of the Middle East. Try not to look at them as simply “Jews” and “oppressors” and to paraphrase you, don’t believe everything you hear on the CBC or in the Toronto Star. I’m sure that as an astute fellow you will learn the truth.
Now as Jack says, “I’m outta here. Good night.”
June 19th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Peter:
Failing to back everything Israel does makes you an antisemite about as much as failing to back Robert Mugabe makes you a racist.
Conservatives seem to have no problem understanding this idea when it comes to other groups and complain bitterly when liberals hold a group like Muslims or blacks up as holy cows.
The fact that Israel is full of Jews is a mitigating factor in my opinion rather than one that drives it. A lot of stuff they did is simply dirty and inexcusable - yet they get a pass all the time from the same right wingers who seem to want to expel everyone else not related to Queen Victoria from the country for various “savage” behaviour.
As you said, though, a mind won’t bend and from what I can see things are as they used to be. Not one person here addressed the list of actions Israel has committed that I provided and one must conclude that it’s because nobody cares. At least I know now. Very interesting.
Point of interest: Israelis themselves seem to be far more willing to admit what their nation has done than their rabid and 2-dimensional defenders stateside. Their justification tends to be a bit better than “You disagree? You’re an antisemite and you want a second holocaust!”. It’s funny - even at the Jerusalem post in the comments section, most of the really bloodthirsty comments seem to come from the USA - well far away from the carnage. Armchair activism at its finest.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Arbour is a disgrace and so is Hall Findlay.
Arbour is a complete failure in all jobs she held over the years, most notably in Hague, Can Supreme Court and UN. She is more concerned about pushing her neo-communist agenda than helping people anywhere. Big mouth, no moral standards, what a shame for Canada.